Israbirding.com Forum

one more question! (Main Area)

posted by James Smith , 22.08.2010, 09:44

Hi Barak & Eyal,

Thanks very much for trying to answer this one. The question arose for several reasons, primarily because of Barak's initial confidence that it must be the African sub-species but also because my limited references don't draw attention to, or even show, the colour tone of the secondaries (from below) as being definitive for separating the two forms. Also, a very quick image search of birds from Asia on the OBC database seems to show a number of birds with paler underside to the secondaries such as the bird in the link forwarded by Eyal.

However, I'd agree that on distribution and perhaps season it should most likely be the African form but playing Devil's advocate a little, when I stand back from my monitor and look at Amir's amazing shot the secondaries actually more grayish to me, not white as the underwing coverts. But, as we all know, this is one impression from one image, and your impression from the field is the most important.

Separating the two forms is a really interesting question and it would be very good to get a definitive opinion from someone like Dick Forsman.

Great bird, and keep posting those images!


Best,


James


» Hi James
»
» Since I identified this bird I guess I should answer this...
»
» Good question! In-fact - I am not 100% sure we can. It is a question me
» and Eyal contemplated about in the last two days. Perhaps it is impossible
» to tell them apart in this age. To be honest - I don't know. I assumed it
» goes as the adults (and even here I am not 100% sure that every pale
» seconderies bird is for sure the african ssp although this is the trend).
» Perhaps it's true but I am not an expert for this at all so - good
» question which should be addressed to someone who knows something about it
» .
»
» My guess is still the african - I assume the date fits better this one,
» and the fact that it is juv bird , and that the affrican ssp breeds really
» close to here (Nile delta), it is more likely that this bird refer to this
» population and not to the asiatic one - but, it is only a guess (perhaps a
» good and well established guess... )
»
» keep asking good Q
»
» Barak
» » »
» »
» » Well this is a fantastic image! Nice work Amir.
» »
» » I was wondering how safely this bird can be identified as a first-cycle
» of
» » the African form and not the Asian form? Is it certain that the Asian
» form
» » always shows the dark secondaries from the underside? What other
» features
» » are suggestive of the African form?
» »
» »
» » Just asking questions..as always.
» »
» »
» » Best,
» »
» »
» » James

---
James P. Smith
Amherst, MA, USA
http://pioneerbirding.blogspot.com/

Complete thread:

• RBA: African Black Shouldered kite (19-8-2010) - avner_cohen, 20.08.2010, 08:02 (Main Area)
  • Kite Continues today - Eyal Shochat, 20.08.2010, 08:13
  • Images - Eyal Shochat, 20.08.2010, 09:08
    • Images - itaisha, 20.08.2010, 09:54
      • thanks! - Barak Granit, 20.08.2010, 10:41
        • one more - Amir Ben Dov, 21.08.2010, 08:43
          • one more question! - James Smith, 21.08.2010, 17:31
            • one more question! - Barak Granit, 22.08.2010, 07:15
              • one more question! - James Smith, 22.08.2010, 09:44
            • one more answer - Eyal Shochat, 22.08.2010, 07:43
              • one more answer - Barak Granit, 22.08.2010, 11:39
                • The BWK is still there today - Oz Horine, 23.08.2010, 06:53
                  • And still present 31/8/10 - yoavpe, 31.08.2010, 22:43